Episode 3 - Cindy Thackery - Thackery Vineyards

This episode has it all—wine, real estate wisdom, leadership, advocacy, and so many laughs. I’m joined by the incredible Cindy Thackery: vineyard owner, managing broker of John L. Scott, and a fierce advocate for positive change in real estate and beyond.

We sip a beautiful, naturally made “naked wine” from Cindy’s vineyard (a pandemic project that turned into a passion), talk about harvesting 17 tons of Pinot Noir grapes, and how you can get your hands on some this fall. Then we dive into her real estate journey—from agent to managing broker—and her leadership within the Women's Council of Realtors, specifically the Portland, Oregon network, which supports women in the industry through education, connection, and opportunity.

But we don’t stop there. Cindy opens up about her recent role as a Federal Political Coordinator, representing the Oregon REALTOR® voice in Washington D.C. Her approach to advocacy isn’t about sides—it’s about solutions. With a balanced, thoughtful mindset, she champions policy that supports homeownership and uplifts communities. As she puts it, “It’s not red or blue, it’s purple policy.”

This episode is a toast to leadership, friendship, and being the change—one glass (and one laugh) at a time. Cheers!

Thank you for listening! Connect and collaborate with Realtor Rashelle on any of her social media platform pages > https://linktr.ee/RealtorRashelle

Transcript

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Welcome to the Realtor Who Wines podcast. I'm Rashelle Newmyer, your hostess with the most as a student of life, a connector, a passionate wine enthusiast, and your local favorite guide. Join me as we explore the vibrant Pacific Northwest. Savor the finest wines and champion the spirit of entrepreneurship. Each episode, I'll sit down with inspiring guests, supporting business ownership and uncovering the stories that make this community unique. So grab a glass of wine, settle in, and let's embark on a journey of discovery and connection together. Cheers. Hi, everyone. Thank you for tuning in to episode three of the Realtor Who Wines podcast. I am so very excited and I can't wait to laugh and laugh and laugh, because that's what we always do together. With my guest today, Cindy Thackery. Cindy, thank you so much for being here. Cheers to you. So I'll let you take a little sip. before I ask you. I know, I know. Okay. Sorry. Cheers. Before we get started. One out. Well, actually, don't tell anybody about you because we're going to talk about. I was going to say introduce. Yeah. Introduce yourself, but actually don't introduce yourself, because one of the reasons I really wanted to have you on the show is you wear so many hats. So I think it'd be weird for you to just, like, list all these hats you wear. So let's just talk about it as we go. So first things first. Obviously, we're sipping delicious wine. Tell us a little bit about this bottle and why it's here today. Yes. So we bought a vineyard. Back in 2020, we decided that, you know, we needed something extra to do it during Covid because we were bored by the farm. And, so we bought a vineyard, didn't know anything about it. And we are the type of people that are like, let's just YouTube it. It'll be fine. We'll figure it out. Yeah. That's where you go for knowledge, not we did not figure it out. Luckily, a consultant knocked on our door and he's like, hey, I want to help you with your vineyard. It's, been in disrepair through the years there. Yeah. Year old vines and, I want to help you get it off the ground. So we're like, thank you. Yes. So much. Yeah. So, yeah, we started this endeavor. It is a lot of work. A lot of people say, oh my gosh, I wish I had. You're living my dream. And I'm like, come work with me for a day. Yeah. For sure. What that dream looks like. It's definitely a lot of dirty, Long hours. I do all the tractor work myself. We we do a lot ourselves. We hire professionals to help us with the pruning and things like that. To make sure that the vines grow appropriately. But this here is our first bottle. Our first harvest was in 2021. We bought in 2020. So, luckily we didn't have that harvest because that would have been a smoky, oh yeah. Right. Yeah. So aged for almost two years in the barrel, and then it's been sitting in our shop for just almost as long as. Yeah, trying to discover balance itself out. It's starting to get there. It's still, it's a, it's a very tart Pinot noir. So it's going to go really good with like an earthy, snack or a steak. Well I think that's one thing that a lot of people don't realize that aren't in the wine industry are aren't big wine connoisseurs. It's like how long wine has to sit for, like the flavor notes to really open and for it to like, really get the true flavor that it was intended to have. Right. And this is the kind of wine that, like, I'll go and buy my cheap wine for what I'm going to watch, you know, definitely on the couch. Yeah. Just don't care. Yeah. This is the wine that you actually want to pair with something because it's really going to make you appreciate the, all the different notes that you'll get from, like, just tasting it right now versus if we had a nice juicy steak to go. Oh, yeah. Sorry, I forgot my steaks. Oh my bad, my bad. Maybe next time someone to have fun with. Definitely not necessarily. Just as your casual. And I know you get asked us all the time because we're friends, are together a lot is. When are you gonna open a tasting room? When are you going to start selling? Like, what's the plan? So do you want to talk about that? Your room is going to be. I don't know. I don't know if that's in our future. Yeah, that's a lot to take on that. But we do, some events at the vineyard in North Plains. It's Dockery Vineyards, dot com. You can check us out online there and see some of the gorgeous photos you were there for. Yes, I have been there. It's amazing. And it's a beautiful table setting and just kind of amongst the vines. So events, weddings, things like that that we host there the wine itself, probably in the next six months is when we would release that for purchase. So you can message us on the website. Sure. And then art is a goal to get into like any restaurants or anything like that or like how far are you wanting to take the. This obviously is a passion project and a hobby. Like how far do you envision taking it, or are you going to just kind of keep it close to the heart? Well, as this has been, learn as we go. Sure, definitely. There's all these different avenues that you can go down. So I've kind of experimented with other thoughts and. And what do we do? And so I think it would be in some sort of specialty restaurants. You're not it's not something you can go to Fred Meyer and purchase. Right. We're never gonna make it into that, right? That's not what it's meant to be. Yeah, yeah. So and it'll be more of just like personal sales and private events and things like that. So we'll use it for I love it. And it is it definitely has great flavor. I like when you say it's tart, I notice it, but I don't know if I would notice it if you didn't tell me it was tart. Sometimes, you know, like wine is like that when you read the bottle and you're like, tastes like blackberries. And you tasted, you're like, blackberries, you know? So I don't know if everybody would notice the tartness. I think you notice it because that you're right. Like, you know what? You want it to taste like judging it so you can't. You just be. Wait. I want you to be big body also for the audience. Yeah. For when I talk to you like this all the time. Yeah. Like we're like answers for a basketball game. We're like college frat guys, like, dude, I swear we're professionals and we're very feminine. Yeah. Yeah. When we want to be. Yes. Talk about. So you had that consultant come in. How did you decide who to use as a winemaker? How did you, as a winemaker? Because you don't make the wine. You obviously you had someone come in and do it. He helped us make the wine. And we he he did. What do you call it? A blind taste for us. And so he had about four different, wines with, you couldn't see the bottle. You don't know what? Yeah, it's all made of and all the things. And so he had us taste what we liked best for our palate. And this is kind of the route we took. It is a, it is what you would call a naked wine. It doesn't have any preservatives. Additives to it. Just very natural. So which is also why part of the process of it taking so long in the barrel and in the bottle is that, 30 years from now, you could open this wine and it not be vinegar. Yeah, yeah. And then you don't use all the grapes for your own production. You also sell tons. You talk about that process and like. And then anybody listening that might want to purchase grapes in the fall reach out. But yeah talk about what grapes you have and like, like how many times you try to sell and things like that. We have, Pinot noir and a couple different varietals of that. And we, have harvested 17 tons before, which is a lot of wine, which is why we don't produce it. What we produce is a barrel, and a barrel is going to make, oh, gosh, is it 300 bottles? I think it is. Is what a barrel makes and that is out of half a ton. So if you go time. So she's selling those grapes. Grapes are available. Yes. We have lots of guys. We have multiple buyers. We have a rosé that's going to be coming this year also. So I'm excited to get that one because we've just done the standard. Pino. But we're going to do a classic little Pino rosé this year. And what for those that don't know, like, how can you turn Pinot grapes into a Pinot rosé? Like, what's different about that process? It's the process of the fermentation and the removal of the skin portion, so you don't let the ferment fermentation happen with the skin, which is what provides this dark red color. So you're instantly separating those, and then you just get the rosé, the rose color. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Let's, transition a little bit. So another way that we know each other and work together all the time is real estate. So another reason why I thought Cindy would be an amazing guest. She is also into wine, has wine, grows wine. And then also we both share the heart of real estate. So talk a little bit about your real estate journey and what leadership roles you have right now in real estate. Yeah, I am a managing broker of three offices. I have a hundred agents. I've been in real estate for 13 years and 12 or 13 years, and, instantly went to management position, when my license allowed it to be just as a natural course for me to help agents. Succeed in their business. And, so I've been doing that for almost nine years now. Manager. And then lots of different hats. Yeah, you are a tiny. But, I mean, that's how we met. We met actually on a wine bus. Yeah. True story. With our very first date. And it's our meet. Cute. Yeah. Have you, we are both part of the Women's Council of Realtors, and they have a function. That's the main bus. And it's a tour that goes through different areas of Oregon. And we just stop by each other and then instantly connected and became friends on the wine bus. Yeah. And then, of course, after multiple stops on the wine bus, we were best friends by the end. Yes we were. We even made a TikTok and the wine had nothing to do with that. But yeah. And then through Women's Council of Realtors, you've held positions. Last year you were the president elect, when I was president, which was amazing. We got to work together and travel together. And then this year, he's been the president. So just talk about a little bit of your journey with Women's Council, too. Yeah. So basically, Rochelle suckered me into the. So I may or may not have given her wine right here. President elect. Yeah. I'm president. Wouldn't that be so fun actually. Really cool. Well, now she's past president. So she's not there with us as much. Okay. Yeah, she does get to, chime in on all the things. And I'm like, oh my gosh, guess what? I need your help or this is hard. I was like, I know. Yeah, it is hard. It's it's definitely one of the hardest, probably leadership roles that I've had so far because it is, it's kind of like herding cats. Yeah, a little bit. So I am one for those of you that don't know. So the Women's Council of Realtors is, a national organization that has the local networks. And so we, the network we're referring to is the Portland, Oregon Network. But, we've had as high as 100 members. And then right now we're currently sitting at like 65 members. But it's planning events, education opportunities. It's all about connection, supporting women and the industry. Even though the majority of the industry realtors are women, we actually hold very few leadership roles. So that's why Women's Council is still super important. It creates all of those opportunities, but it is hard to plan. It's like a really big sometimes people compare us to a sorority in a way that like we are organizing a bunch of women to accomplish one goal at one time and advocate for certain things. And so, yeah, it can be challenging for sure. I think, because, I mean, we'll get into the other roles that I have, but, compared to some of the other leadership positions, I have also, I think the difference is that we really are self-driven and we really count on all of our board members to step up and do everything versus and some of the other organizations, they have staff. Yeah, that's so true. So we really are holding this leadership role on our shoulders through the entire, you know, president elect through past president events, because you're still super involved in helping do a lot of the things there. And so yeah, it's been I think that's what I was like, why is this so hard sometimes. Yeah. That's so true. That's why as we just don't have we're self ran. And it is like they are elected positions too. So you're elected by the membership. It's not appointed or anything like that. But what Cindy's referring to is like, if you're part of like the Oregon Realtors of Oregon, they also have a board that's full of, really owners and members in the industry. But Oregon Realtors itself has a C, admins that kind of help guide that board. And with Women's Council, we don't have that kind of guidance. So yeah, I can in the event see. Right. You're just like show up. Right? Like they're not worried about the the balance in the checking account, what can be covered and things like that for sure. But one thing that, has come out of it for us is last year, Cindy and I were both in DC. We're headed back to DC this year, where we get to go to the Capitol and talk to legislation about, equal housing opportunities or more, low income housing, or just like tons of topics and politics and housing are very, very big passions of yours. And so talk about that a little bit and your advocacy work. Yeah. So I I think it started with I did the advocacy for Portland Metro, and dealt with kind of the things that were going on within our city, and the metro of the city. And then that went into helping my local community with, urban growth boundary situation. And so working directly with the mayor. And so I was on the P&G for that. Well, just for anybody that doesn't know what urban about about our urban growth boundaries, I promise I can talk. Will you explain that a little bit? Yeah. So that's where it's determined based off of that, they want to prevent sprawl, which would mean people just building anywhere and everywhere that they can. Yeah. And try to keep it together so that you don't come across these weird plot maps of stuff you have to deal with on the road. So having somewhat of a plan to it, and there's a term to a lot of the that urban growth boundary where it'll be a 50 year lock and nothing can happen within that area for 50 years outside of the natural growth. That has already been allotted. And so unless, something were to come about from the governor, that could be reversed in certain areas. And this, so this was a circumstance where we were supposed to have been approved for the urban growth boundary, and there ended up being some logistics with that, legal logistics that, backfired a little bit, I guess. Sure. Still working on it. And it does help. It does help the community, grow properly and put their resources in the right spaces. And Oregon's one of the few states that actually has that. Yeah. Well, and explain like why North Plains is the area that you're talking about, why the people of North Lands were also trying to get that because I think some people will be like, yeah, protect the farms. Of course I don't want to grow there. But actually this was a little bit different. They're trying to create housing opportunities and there are certain lands that aren't even being used for farming. It's empty lots and things like that. Right. Well, and I think with some of the I don't want to go too deep into sure. Of course. Yeah. One. Sure. But they're just from a high level. So people understand like, well, why would a town be for or against that or why would a community want that or not want that? The hard part came in with North Plains as that we're very small, very tiny, tiny community. Didn't even have a grocery store kind of thing. But we have three bars. So everybody's like, yeah, we definitely need more homes. Sure. Everybody was on the same page of that of we need more homes. For that to happen though, there is an algorithm that is okay. If you are going to add this amount of homes, you now have to be able to add this amount of businesses. Sure. And so it can't be just one sided. Yeah, yeah. And vice versa. Like if you were going to add businesses now you have to add more homes. And that's where the drama I guess really came in is everybody was like, yeah homes. And but no, we don't want the businesses. Sure. And and then there was a lot of history there with some of the farms. And there's a ton of history in North Plains, very small town feel. But to to improve I my whole theory was on it of I would rather have a say in how that growth is going to happen versus a forced growth of another neighboring city coming in and saying, well, we're just going to engulf you. Yeah, kind of happening. And that's a little bit scary. Yeah. No, no, that totally makes sense. And then talk about so that's like stuff you're doing locally specifically to your personal community. But you just recently were put into an amazing role within the our legislation. Talk about that. So, while you were there with me, I know when I got to, when we went to DC. Yep. And I was like, on cloud nine, I think I came back to the hotel room. I was I was like, oh my gosh, guess what? Yeah, we're opposite in that way. When some people start talking politics, I'm like, oh, what's going to happen? What are you going to say? And like but you approach it from such a positive, balanced outlook too, but you truly just care about like what's happening and you just want to be a part of the voice in the movement, regardless of who or what side you're on. You're like trying to help move in a positive direction. And I love that about I think that that's the difference with, it's not just politics, right? One side of the aisle. It's with real estate, you really are. We call this the purple for the purple. Yeah. Policy. Because we it's not a matter of red and blue. It's. What is the best opportunity for homeownership? Yes. And, so when we went to DC, I was able to go in and substitute as a federal political coordinator. And, it was one of the most magical moments, and I was totally nerding out on it. I got to meet all of these people across the state. That have been in these positions. And what it is, is you get to be appointed to either a senator or a representative and you are, you become their direct contact for any policies that you're trying to get their attention on. And when we were there, there was a lot going on in our industry and we truly made a difference. We were able to sit across the table from the senator, and when we told him some of the concerns we had with, like some VA loan stuff, he he was like, what? Wait, what? And the magical moment he told us to put that on the books. We need to we need to make sure this happens. Yeah. Because there's so much going on. There's so much noise going on that they really need the people to come in and say, hey, I need this on your radar. And it does. It makes a difference. So I got I got the bug there. Yeah. DC and I'm officially appointed to one of our senators here in Oregon. Yeah. Which is amazing. So she is, one of our senators go to contacts, so if he has certain questions about things like, hey, what are you seeing in the field? Do you think this would benefit homeownership? Do you think this would benefit the industry, or do you think it would hurt it? Or how do you think people would respond to it? Cindy's a voice for our industry in that regards. And then she also turns around and asks the industry, you guys senators asking me this, yeah, how are we feeling about this? Or if she can already give concrete examples of how it would or would not be beneficial. Yeah. Which is awesome. I, I have the level of the state where I get to. I'm the vice chair for government affairs. So we deal a lot with legislation here in Oregon, currently have over 600 bills that have to do with real estate alone. There's yeah, I think a couple thousand that dropped that just in general for the state, but over 600 just for real estate. Homeownership. Yeah. Well, I think that so many people don't realize, like, what really does go on behind the scenes before, like, a house can even be built or like the urban growth boundary, like there's just so many things that have to go into play and get approved, and so many people have to touch it before, like one person can build a house, and then even once they have approval, they have to get constant re approval and new permits and updates. And it that's why it takes so long and that's why it's so expensive. And that's why the prices keep going up. So we keep having these conversations of like do we have to have these many conversations. And also it's impacting the prices and the timelines significantly like supply and demand has been a huge issue for us. And not just Oregon but in the nation. Like we're seeing it everywhere. So and then we're also one of the topics I got to talk about at the Capitol was about, you know, people in their 30s and 40s being able to buy homes like so there's so many multigenerational living right now because people can't have that down payment or pay, like the price tag of what homes are going for, especially in our metropolitan area. So is more about lower price points and like entry level homes and like and then also right now, as you know, across the country, so many people have a 3% interest rate and they're not willing to give that up. So they're not moving out of their first time home. So that's not releasing those to the next generation. So like people are sitting a lot longer right now than what we've seen in the last few decades prior. And so that's just like it has a huge domino effect. But I just I love talking about it because I don't think people realize. I think a lot of times they think we just open doors and like, oh, check out this two bedroom, three bath, la la. You know? But really, like there's so much other stuff that we're doing to like help create homeownership opportunities. So I agree and I mean, it's it's even protecting certain taxes or lack of taxes that come with, with the homeownership where they want to increase that. And then they're like, well, that is now going to increase just the overall expenditure of being able to own a home and get into the home and the generational wealth that can come. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And so there's this trickle effect. And Oregon's a pretty hard state for real estate. And we have a lot of rules. Yeah that we're trying we're we're desperately, desperately trying to combat those with the state right now and balance out some of this. Yeah. So some of them are necessary, but some of them, like I said, are just redundant or extra conversations. But yeah, that's I just think so. Just so you know, most of you out there, your realtors are working really hard and they're not just opening doors. And if you're not working with on we know some like really great ones So one thing that we're both like, super passionate about is collaboration over competition. Obviously. Like, we could have easily met on the wine bar, something like, get out of here. Yeah, I'm an agent. Even though the whole house is full of agents. I would have been weird. Weirdos. I mean, there is 1 or 2. But the point is, we both believe in collaboration over competition. Yep. There's a lot of business to go around, and we see that in real estate, where it can be a very siloed, industry where you are like out there working on your own, and then it feels competitive. Right. But then we also fill in a lot as women, and trying to like women, or at least our generation. I feel like we are changing the story a lot, but our generation was raised a little bit to be like, you're competing with that girl for either someone's attention for a job because there's only so many jobs that are given to female. So I mean, obviously that narratives changed, but talk about your passion and your thoughts around collaboration and over competition and how you've seen it change. And like what else you would like to see it change further. Yeah, and I agree. I think there's this, perception and that's still there from agents of like, oh, I can't talk to so-and-so because they're at this company. Yeah. It's like, who's crossed that or whatever? We're in different companies. Yeah. And we have another gal that we talk to every day. Yeah, three of us are all in three different companies, and we're constantly like, oh my gosh, I'm dealing with this right now. What? Do you have any advice for this? Do you have any contractors that could fix this? What's your experience with a fire door? That was me, by the way. I just had a fire door situation, you know, but it's stuff like, we don't have to be alone. We don't have to figure this out by ourselves. And YouTube, it kind of like the venue, right? Right. We can have support and and be competitors to definitely. Well, the truth of the matter is your clients aren't my clients, right? Like, even if you could, I use this analogy like, because I train and mentor a lot of agents like you do, and people are always like, why are you training competition? And I was like, I don't ever think of it like that. I look at it as one. Hopefully, if I ever do a deal with them, they'll be great and they'll know what they're doing because they had great training. Celebrate the industry, right. Raising the professional standards. But also, let's say if I just had one neighborhood, I don't want to work both sides of the deal. I only want to represent either the sellers or the buyers, right? To make sure they have my full attention and I'm paying attention and representing them thoroughly. So even if I had a neighborhood. But 100 houses, I kind of represent every client that comes in and out of that neighborhood. Like there's so much business to go around, why not collaborate and connect with each other. And it is much easier and more fun to do a deal with somebody you know, like and trust on the other side. And you can just have real, authentic conversations with them versus these negotiation tactics. And I'm going to trick their agent to tricking their clients a little, you know, like accept this crazy deal and, and study. You can just be like, Cindy, this is where my clients are at. Where are your clients? I like how do we make this work? We want your clients to be happy with my clients. Be happy and you can just have like an honest conversation without all the games. I think it, comes down to like the collaboration. You get to know, although there's like some thousands of agents within our radius. Everybody's a little bit different. Everybody has different clientele. And you will work with that person again eventually. Yeah. And so when you create rapport with that person, or you can be trustworthy and don't be the person that's like, I've been doing this for 30 years. Oh my gosh, don't be that person. Yeah. Nobody likes that person like, shamed somebody because I haven't been in the industry that as long as them. Yes. I mean, those people, most of the problems come from some of that stuff, right? Because they disconnected themselves so much. Right. So I think collaboration is really key. This is the relationship business. Yes. At the end of the day. Yeah. And it's not just a relationship with your client. Exactly. It's a relationship, but the other side. And then also all your industry partners, I wonder, are roofers your inspectors like everybody that's involved? Tire corps or title? Sorry, tire car is not a sponsor of this podcast. They could get in trouble for that scratch tire color from the mic. But no, like title companies like everything. Yeah, right. Like, there's so many people that are working hard to accomplish the same goal, and then you just have this weird friction that's unnecessary. Like, when is if I get an offer from somebody and I've got multiple offers, I'm hoping I know a lot of these agents already. Yeah, but I'm going to be like, you know what? I've done a deal with this person and it was phenomenal. Their paperwork's great and they have question if somebody is treating you poorly on the phone and it goes a long ways to have collaboration and not be like, we're in a boxing ring to fight it out, it doesn't have to be that way. Well, because that's also a terrible experience for the clients. I was just talking about that the other day, that sometimes you can tell when an agent is getting riled up, and then they're rallying up their clients and they don't even realize it. So they're just like, can you believe the they asked for this? And then your clients are like, they didn't even know to be offended by that, right? And so now they're like all riled up and it just like escalates. And it's so, like over-the-top. So I agree with you. Like the collaboration and just like communicating to. Yeah, like, best tips for practice and sharing that because it does it levels like you said. Yeah, right. This is the playing field. Yeah. Well, I just always elevates our professionalism to and ultimately the clients win because on both sides, the clients are taking care of through and through. And we want both sides to win. They want to sell a house. They want to buy a house. Let's help them accomplish that. Yeah. Right. And the best seamless process like and then with Women's Council we see that a lot too. That's why Women's Council of Realtors has been huge for both of us. It's a collaboration over competition not just locally, but then we're connected with there's 13,000 women and Women's Council nationally. So like we get that connection and collaboration across the United States, which is amazing. Yeah. Talk about that. How is your agency? Sure. Is that a question? It was a statement. I thought you were just talking. But so we how is your experience been with Women's Council like has I that's definitely been my experience. Well you are such a connector. Yeah you are. That's why we have this part. Yes. Your personality is very much like you have to meet this person. You need to meet this person. And you just like it's like watching magic happen. Anyway, you know, these conferences and all these people that she connects with and, I'm not necessarily that I'm more of the. I'm just going to watch and see what happens a little bit and then I'll when I'm comfortable. Right. So I'm trying to push myself out of that, that boundaries, push my boundaries. But across the board, like, I got a call yesterday from a gal from Florida, and she has somebody that wants to sell their property here, and we just we talked for quite some time about what's going on in Florida, their different policies and heard about a little bit on politics. Sure. Because she was she fed into it. Yeah, I was there. But we do have a collaboration, not just within here in our city, but like you said, it's national. It's it's really magical to be able to call somebody up and say, hey, are you guys experiencing this too? Or what is the market like over there? Or I'd love to be your referral partner. And also just even like educational opportunities, like, what are your members responding to? What are they wanting to learn about? Any speaker suggestions? Things like that? And one thing I'd love to point out about Women's Council Realtors it's not just for women, it's for anybody that's supporting women in leadership roles within our industry. That's why Women's Council exists, and that's why it's still around. Because I already mentioned, like we have, I think it's like 67% of women, or of the industry of realtors are women, but like only 3% run broker or 3% owned brokerages. And like 13% run brokerages, which those numbers. That's a huge difference, right? So it just means we're not holding as many leadership roles and we're just trying to help develop those women to, like, have the confidence and the skill set to do so, whether it's on their brokerage or on a board or a community or anything. And it's not it's not guy versus gal, no scenario. This is, women just needing to support other women also of yeah, that life happens and tragedy happens or amazing roles get appointed or, you know, we're there to lift each other up. Yeah. Hold each other up. And I think that's just different versus male versus female. Yeah. For sure. And just the way that our makeup is run of of how that equates into business and why it's so needed to for women to have women rise each other up. Yeah, definitely. And give each other grace because we understand that. Yeah. Because we understand. Be the catty, be nobody likes the catty. 100%. Obviously, you and I could talk for hours and hours, which means she will definitely be back, because we desperately trying to be professional. I know it's hard. I hope that we were professional enough for the listeners out there today. And if not, you're welcome. Sorry, sorry, not sorry. This is who we are. But I would love to say cheers to you. Thank you for coming. I appreciate you and thank you everyone for listening. Bye.